Ask Nathan: PHEV Trucks Will Save Us All, Has Jeep Lost its Luster, and All EVs Should be Power Banks?
In this week’s post
- Now we’re seeing PHEV trucks, and it’s going to be glorious.
- Has Jeep lost some of its magic?
- Why can’t all EVs (and PHEVs) be power banks?
The first question comes from a fan of PHEV trucks, and he thinks that our world will be better with them in it.
Q: (Via: YouTube) Nathan we are finally FINALLY seeing the coming of PHEV trucks like the Ram Ramcharger you talked about!
PHEV trucks isn’t a new idea. This could solve SO many issues people have with electrification and people who hate using gasoline and people who have range anxiety! I know you like the idea too because of your experience with the 4XE system Jeep uses. You’ve said before that you’re a fan but this is something more amazing and even glorious!
Anyway I do have a question that you might have better insight on than most. How expensive do you think the Ramcharger will be and do you think there will be a PHEV truck that will be less expensive? Also I have a question for you or even Andre about why Ram didn’t use a diesel engine as a “generator” like you call it?
Nathan. I have followed your career since the early 2000s and you always make me smile with good humor and good information. Thank you for everything!
All the best!
- CH. Goldstein Riverside, CA
A: Thanks for that great message!
For those who don’t know, the 2025 Ram Ramcharger is very different than most PHEVs in the United States. That’s because the gas engine is only used to power batteries, and send electrical power to the electric motors powering the wheels. There is no mechanical connection (like a transmission) that connects the gas engine to the wheels.
As such, this PHEV truck is powered by a battery. The gas engine simply backs up that battery, extending the range. Other PHEVs, like the Jeep Wrangler 4xe, or the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, they use an electric motor that is bonded to (both) a transmission and a gas engine. That means that the gas engine has to use its grunt to drag the vehicle along. Sure, the aforementioned PHEVs can run on all electrical power for a time, but their EV range is limited.
The 2025 Ramcharger’s gas engine will not have to move the vehicle as such. In fact, it should have a much less stressful life compared to a conventional gas powertrain. In addition, the Ramcharger can go a great distance without having the gas engine do a thing. Simply put: if you charge it from home, you will use practically no gasoline for regular commuting. Check out the above video for more info.
The price and complexity of PHEVs is no joke…
I’m sure the 2025 Ram Ramcharger will cost a ton of dough. My conservative guess is a starting price north of $70,000. I hope I’m off, because there’s a lot of middle-class truck fans who would love to own something like this – for a realistic price. Still, this type of tech is bound to trickle down if it proves popular. Early adaptors always pay a high price for the latest thing, but in time, I suspect we’ll see smaller, more reasonable PHEV trucks.
A possible candidate is the upcoming Ram midsize pickup truck. We know that it will be built in Belvidere, and that various federal mandates will insist it be clean. If the PHEV trucks that we’ll see in the future are clean enough, which they could be, it may be a viable solution. A smaller battery, less glitz, and we may have a more affordable option.
Believe me: if the Ramcharger is a success (and I think it’s quite possible), other truck makers will be in hot pursuit with their own PHEV truck, similar in design.
Look, I like EVs for commuting and whatnot, but all-electric pickup trucks have a long way to go before they can truly replace internal combustion. Being that there’s less stress, and less waste coming from a PHEV truck – maybe this can bring some of the skeptical into the fold. Hopefully, the upcoming batch of batteries will be less wasteful as well.
Finally: you mentioned using a diesel engine for a generator? Yea, that would makes sense, but there are things that one must consider. Diesels are usually heavier than their gasoline equivalents. Weight is the enemy for any vehicle. Speaking of the “enemy,” diesel has a bit of a stigma in the United States. Even super-low-sulfur diesel is vilified by many consumers (thanks VW), so there would be hurdles. Also, at least with Stellantis, the Pentastar V6 they’re using is old/reliable tech that’s very inexpensive to build.
Still, imagine how much range you might get with an efficient small-displacement diesel… it could be epic. Could you imagine PHEV trucks with over 1,000 miles range? I rub my chin thoughtfully in deep contemplation.
Thanks again for the email!
The next question comes from a fan who wonders if Jeep has lost some of its appeal.
Q: (Via YouTube) Thanks Nathans for a solid video. Now, question of the day and maybe worth some investigative journalism…
Do you sense that the “Jeep” mania is starting to wean a little bit? There seems to be alternatives coming available and people are getting board with “Jeeping”. I see a lot of Jeeps popping up for sale lately and seeing more interest with the alternative options, you know, something new!
A: You might be on to something.
There are a lot of used Wranglers up for sale, that’s for sure. The sales numbers have dropped as well. In 2022, there were over 181,000 Wranglers sold in the United States. This year, it loos like it will drop by up to 25-precent. Some of that is the UAW debacle, but only a bit. A lot of it has to do with disenfranchised fans having to pay painful premiums at the dealership. I mean, Wranglers aren’t cheap to begin with, and having some places charge massive fees is ridiculous.
Recently, with the sales drop, some folks have finally begun to lower prices at or even below MSRP. In fact, many Jeep Gladiators and selling for under MSRP with some nice discounts. Personally, I tell people to avoid those dealerships that punished consumers with price gouging, and find one that was honest. It’s possible, but it takes effort.
Also, I’ve seen a huge bump in used Wranglers. You’ll notice their resale value is quite good, but some of those prices are beginning to creep downward as well.
As I mentioned before, Jeep builds a lot of Wranglers. Even with this year’s sales drop, there is still good profit. Remember: Wrangler has a new opponent, the Ford Bronco. Last year, they sold over 99,000. While that is a drop from last year, Ford has had a few production issues too. Still, this is just the tip of the iceberg with Jeep’s competiton.
Next year, we will see a new Toyota Land Cruiser. Later on, there will be a baby Land Cruiser of some sort, and an all-new 4Runner.
All of this will eat into Wrangler sales, for sure. Still, with all of that being said, the sheer amount of Wranglers I see on the trail is (still) staggering. No vehicle can match the aftermarket cachet Wranglers have. It is rare to see any in public that haven’t been modified in some way.
No, I think the Jeep community is still pretty strong. Things could change if they drop the ball and don’t spend more time innovating and preparing for the near future. Also, I think some consumers are sick and tired of spending so much on Jeeps. They have no answer for the masses who want something real for less than $30,000.
We’ll see what the competition makes Jeep do soon.
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The last comment comes from the same fan who posted last week’s comment about off-grid solar charging. This time, he’s curious about why don’t all BEV (battery electric vehicles) have a generator function built in.
Q:(Via Twitter @NathanAdlen) Morning Nathan! I have another “Ask Nathan” for ya… Why don’t all BEV’s come with solar generator like functionality built into them?
I know the Lightning has “pro power onboard” and most trucks now are getting some form of that like the new Ram for instance you and Andre discussed in today’s video, but why not partner up with an ecoflow or bluetti to give every BEV the literally life saving ability to be a portable power station that can backup an entire home for days (indefinitely with enough alternative generation such as wind or solar. Making this functionality available in every BEV could provide much need regional stability to our strained grid.
The government could even provide incentives encouraging folks to allow demand response services utilizing the massive batteries in their BEV to ease grid strain in times of heavy demand. It just seems like we’re missing a huge opportunity to improve our grid usage in a very meaningful way. I mean, even if folks only allowed maybe 20% of their battery to be utilized for demand response, that small amount might be the difference between grid down or keeping the lights on for everybody. Maybe you can talk to some of your industry insider friends, or maybe you already have 😁 and let us common folk know what the who’s who of the transportation world have in store for us all.
Thanks as always!
Noah
A: Thanks for the DM!
The idea for using BEVs and PHEVs as power stations has been around for a while, but it’s only now getting attention. That’s because automakers finally got the memo that they needed to make on-board/exportable power sexy. Consumers may never use the power for an emergency, or to power a camp/worksite. Still, the idea that you can is marketing gold.
About five year ago, I did a story on the Nissan RE-Leaf – which was a slick idea for emergency services. Basically, it’s a jacked up 1st generation Nissan Leaf that can power an emergency site. This was a working prototype, but since 2011, Nissan EVs export power. This one didn’t have portable power that you could remove from the vehicle per-se, but it would have been cool to see.
The things is: despite some automakers marketing the benefits of using an EV, or a plug in hybrid as a power generator, it’s not cheap to build. Every extra component you add to anything will bump the price, which is why I doubt this type of system will be on an inexpensive EV anytime soon. Thus, what about a separate power cube of some sort, that’s paired to the car?
I would love it if they would add larger solar panels to an EV along with exportable power, and a portable power cube. That would be epic.
